Posts tagged Attributes

A tale of attributes and marks

2
1 year ago
by Azrael in

The problem with a lot of MMORPG’s is that within a month or six, there are recipes for how to build this type, or that type. Where is the fun in that? We here consider the discovery of this or that in relation to character development to be a challenge, and part of the game itself. There is absolutely no benefit to being able to simply follow a recipe for building your character. There is another big thing at play here: experimentation. One of the things I actually like about testing abilities is doing so with others. Experimentation with skills, attributes and abilities with friends is always fun.

So, what are we doing with the character system in Emerald Kingdom? A number of fun things. Let me break out a few things here:

  • No numeric stats: This one is easy. Public facing numerics are, in our opinion, bad. They lead to recipes, but more than that, they lead to stat whoring. We don’t like stat whoring. It annoys us. In place of client facing numerics, we will simply move the numbers to the back end, and used named attributes. There are other games which do this, so we are not exactly breaking a mold here.
  • Your attributes and stats are not static: they can go up, they can go down. Same with skills. There will be no class locking in Emerald Kingdom. Mainly because, we don’t feel you should have to start over if you are unhappy. This, along with static and numeric stats that can’t be changed amounts to punching the player.
  • Plug in attributes: we are working on a system where you can combine the usual and basic six attributes (STR, DEX, INT, VIT, CHA, LUK) into different permutations. Originally, we started with a table like this:
STR

DEX

 DEX

STR

 CHA

STR

 LUK

STR

 INT

STR

 VIT

STR
STR

CHA

 DEX

CHA

 CHA

DEX

 LUK

CHA

 INT

CHA

 VIT

CHA
STR

LUK

 DEX

LUK

 CHA

LUK

 LUK

DEX

 INT

LUK

 VIT

LUK
STR

INT

 DEX

INT

 CHA

INT

 LUK

INT

 INT

DEX

 VIT

INT
STR

VIT

 DEX

VIT

 CHA

VIT

 LUK

VIT

 INT

VIT

 VIT

DEX

But then, someone (Amesha) pointed out something crucial…

“Unless you plan to weight one stat in each pair more than the other (which I didn’t think you were) those would be a duplicate combination. To put it another way, is 1 + 2 is the same as 2 + 1?”

Great point. We let that sit for awhile, to think about it. We came up with another wonderful table at that point, (this time with some ideas for the names of the stats):

STR DEX CHA LUK INT VIT
STR NULL Power Magnetism Appearance Resoluteness Vigor
DEX NULL NULL Artistry Aptitude Cleverness Quickness
CHA NULL — NULL Glamor Charm Serendipity
LUK NULL — — NULL Guile Presence
INT NULL — — — NULL Verve
VIT NULL — — — — NULL

But then, as we were getting StoryTeller to connect to the main server, I made mention of the whole 1+2 = or != to 2+1 argument. To which someone pointed out: using a system where STR+DEX does something different than DEX+STR would make for an awesome discovery moment for a player. Especially because there are no numerics visible to the player. It provides for an “oh wow” moment. Another made a comment that, until this is play tested we have no real way of knowing.

I think, however…this is how I am going to lean in terms of Attributes. So, we will probably wind up with a table that looks like:

STR DEX CHA LUK INT VIT
STR NULL Power Magnetism Appearance Resoluteness Vigor
DEX Named NULL Artistry Aptitude Cleverness Quickness
CHA Named Named NULL Glamor Charm Serendipity
LUK Named Named Named NULL Guile Presence
INT Named Named Named Named NULL Verve
VIT Named Named Named Named Named NULL

Of course, we will need to come up with some more names for attribute permutations. Another thing we will have to think about is, which stat wins in a permutation? Backend wise, if STR has a weighted average score higher than DEX, how does that work not only for STR+DEX, but how does that affect DEX+STR? Something we need to carefully think about. But in the end this will give us a great spread for the Mark system.

For every major NPC (In the world of Emerald Kingdom, these are called “Sprites”, not to be confused with the term “sprite” or gamesprite”), there is a mark that can be attained. Confusia can mark a player with “The mark of curiousity”, Beatrice has the “Mark of Beatrice”, etc. These will act as attainable buffs for attributes and skills. This is important, because it allows for a great deal of flexibility. Marks will have other subtle effects as well, in terms of how people or other NPC’s view you in the world. People will percieve you differently based on whether you have been marked by say, Colleda as opposed to Taranis.

The Attribute and Skill system is still in the design phase, to be sure. But we have some pretty nifty ideas we want to play with here. Balancing it will be a big thing on the to-do list. But, overall…we believe it’s going to allow for maximum customization, without the need for a really complex interface to do so.

Now to come up with some more names for that table…

Fixed attributes are bad.

2
2 years ago
by Azrael in

There will be no numerical stats in Emerald Kingdom. They do nothing but create uncomfortable hindsight. They ultimately force you to cling to a badly constructed character. Let me give you an example.

You find a new MMORPG. We will call it AwesomeMMO. The game is new, and everyone is talking about it. Unfortunately, real information about how characters grow and work within classes means when you level up, you have no idea where to put some of your stat points. You choose a fighter, so you dump a bunch of stat points on STR and DEX, thinking that being strong and moving fast are going to be key. Later on down the road you realize that your CON score, which you didnt pay much attention to because you have armor and your fast and you are strong…your CON score is low. And your CON score is what affects how fast you regenerate HP. It also affects how much HP you are awarded every time you level up. You’re level 50 now, and you have to fight 10 levels above you to get decent amounts of experience points. But you’re getting slapped around hard sometimes because you regenerate your HP slower, and you have less HP to work with.  There is now, no way to go back. You are stuck with this character that you built out of ignorance.

Some games try to fix this with “resets” or “rebirth” into a new higher class. (or the same class, just with your stats base lined) This results in your stats being defaulted, and you can then build again. Usually, resetting a character costs money, rare items and time…not to mention following some really boring and tedious steps. This is so wrong headed, I do not even know where to begin. Why would you think punishing your player is a good idea? It’s not. But the real question is: why would you punish your players for bad design choices you made? Character resets and rebirths are a kludge. A quick fix solution to a bad design problem.

Emerald Kingdom will not do this. Emerald Kingdom is looking at non numerical named stats that are dictated by two things:

  • The way you play.
  • What you choose to enhance, or emphasize less.

For instance, if you think Strength and Dexterity are what you need, we will offer ways to enhance those specific things. You may for instance work your strength through grinding, or a mini game, and go from “Weakling” to “Strongman”. These are not the names we are using, but you get the idea. But here is the kicker: say, later on you do not like the way your character has worked out. You begin working other attributes which emphasize Intelligence and Charisma more than Strength. You can raise those stats, let your strength slide. It will take time (but not thousands of hours!) but you will eventually see the change in your character. Without a reset, rebirth, etc. A real world analogy is, if a body builder suddenly decides he wants to be a Physicist, he is not going to have time to build his body the way he used to. His mind will expand, but the strength and body will be reduced because his focus is elsewhere. He will always be strong, but not the same as when he was oiling up for competition.

The wonderful thing about this idea that we are now developing is that it also works for character classes. If you are an MBA, you work in an office building with spreadsheets, balance sheets, numbers, etc. One day you decide to join the army. While you never completely lose the things you learned as a college grad, you de-emphasize those things in favor of becoming a soldier which requires a whole different skill set. After 10 years in the army, your primary skill set is combat not balance sheets. You remember your life as an MBA, but there would be a learning curve to get back into it after spending 10 years away from it.

The important thing to remember here is: when we choose things in real life, and become unhappy with what we choose…we have options to remedy that. Be it college, military, or life experiences. If real life were like an MMORPG…when we choose to do something we did not like, we would kill ourselves and hope to re-incarnate into something we want. Much like some people delete their character and start over. So, we asked ourselves: why? Why create a system like that?

The answer was: there is NO reason to create a system like that. In fact, it’s been done to death. It’s not fun. It’s not challenging. It’s gives users less choice. While our system is still in development, I think it’s going to be one of the more fun things to test. I really do.

Sprites and other NPC’s.

1
2 years ago
by Azrael in

We have planned for two classes of NPC in Emerald Kingdom. The first class of NPC will be nearly the standard variety of a Non Player Character. As I said yesterday, NPC’s need to evolve. So when I say nearly the standard, I mean just that. These are NPC’s which will help populate the starter towns, and be there for interaction. They will differ in that they will not simply be Quest Vending Machines. When they do deal out quests, how and when they do so will be vastly different.

The other class of NPC will be the Sprites, not to be confused with sprites. Note the capitalization. In the Emerald Kingdom, Sprites refer to a race of people.  The Sprites, from a story standpoint, are the result of some pretty violent evolutionary changes. Getting back to the point however, Sprites will be an integral part of what I discussed yesterday: linear story and quest lines. Sprites and Sprite politics will be areas in and of themselves available to explore. How Sprites relate to the players, and the regular people NPC’s will be one of the big parts of Emerald Kingdom. In keeping with our view of choice, it will be your choice to get involved or to not get involved. There will be plenty of other things to do, see, and be a part of.  There will also be other quests and missions to perform.

One part of Sprite life however, will be unavoidable. Marks. Sprites are classified, at least for us on a development standpoint as positive and negative. They each have their own mark. Kerix is responsible for the Mark of Greed. Beatrice gives out the Mark of Mind. Cries gives out the Mark of Grief. Each of these marks are given out based on the things you do within the world. When you receive a Mark, it affects your character stats and attributes. However, there is a kicker here: whether those changes are for good or for bad, will be for you the player to decide. While negative Sprites may be evil, or not very good…their Mark may have specific benefits to you. Some Sprites may be positive, upbeat, non bad and completely good. But if you are a part of the spy class, you may not want Marcia Proba’s Mark of Justice. Of course, certain types of Marks will be system related. The aforementioned Mark of Grief will be doled out by Cries. She will give it to people who have been caught griefing other players.

The Mark system will be fairly dynamic. Ultimately, it will be very intimately enmeshed with the skill and attribute system. We will be talking about skills and attributes in another post. But, one thing I would like to relay here is: there will be no need to have character “rebirth” or stat “resets”. Attributes will be non numerical, and be changeable over time. The Mark system will work hand in glove with this system. It will allow for new ways of customizing your character.

In closing, we think dynamic questing and dynamic attributes and customization with Sprites and Marks is going to be something you, the player will absolutely love. We here at Double Cluepon really cannot wait to try it.

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